Eisel Mazard (à-bas-le-ciel) talks with vegan fitness vlogger Jason Pizzino (with a brief appearance from "Henya Mania", a.k.a. Henya Perez). The conversation covers Thailand, life & politics, but also --inevitably-- recent controversies with Freelee and Durianrider. At the time of the recording, Jason and Henya were trying to make clear that their commitment is to veganism ("just veganism") and not to any particular diet, and their goals are, ultimately, to help the animals, not to promote an athletic lifestyle. What, now, is the (practical) way forward for vegans after the collapse of most of the hopes that had been attached to the Chiang Mai scene? This was recorded with one party in Israel, and the other in Canada, on March 26th, 2016.